Faith of Freedom

An invitation to all races, color, and system of thought, where Islam is the agenda: from politics to family life.
 
HomeFAQSearchRegisterMemberlistUsergroupsLog in

Share | 
 

 Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Topi

avatar

Posts : 79
Join date : 2007-12-31

PostSubject: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:46 pm

Assalamulaykum


Mustafa Kemal
HERO OR ZERO???



Backround:
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, born Ali Rıza oğlu Mustafa was an army officer, revolutionary statesman, the founder of the Republic of Turkey and its first President. Lived from May 19, 1881 – November 10, 1938. His religious affliation was "Alevi Shia" Muslim.


Mustafa Kemal established himself as a successful and extremely capable military commander while serving as a division commander in the Battle of Gallipoli. He later fought with distinction on the eastern Anatolian and Palestinian fronts, making a name for himself during World War I. Following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire at the hands of the Allies, and the subsequent plans for its partition, Mustafa Kemal led the Turkish national movement in what would become the Turkish War of Independence. Having established a provisional government in Ankara, he defeated the forces sent by the Entente powers. His successful military campaigns led to the liberation of the country and to the establishment of the Republic of Turkey. Hence exiling the present Caliph & the abolishment of the caliphate. The Caliph had went to seek refuge in Italy. It is not exactly known , however one of his decendents lives in Vienna (Austria - an old Ottoman ally), who is currently waiting for his term while the other "decendent" is working as a gynecologist in U.S.A.

Mustafa Kemal then embarked on a major programme of reforms in the political, economic and cultural aspects of life in Turkey, with the perspectives defined in the Kemalist ideology, which sought to create a modern, democratic and secular nation-state, guided by educational and scientific progress based on the principles of positivist and rationalist enlightenment.

He had also reallowed tobbacco production in Anatolia...which had been previously banned by the Ottoman Caliphate.

What he is known for:

--> Abolishment of the old Ottoman Caliphate
--> Exiling the Caliph
--> Allowing the production/exportation and importation of Alcoholic beverages
--> Legalizing the production/exportation and importation of Tobacco based goods.
--> Created his own secular creed Kemalist Ideology
--> Secularized Turkey & abolished Arabic as the main language.
--> Famous Stadium Event: In which he gathered all the women in a city to a stadium and demanded them to throw their hijabs in the air...which did happen according to British Official accounts...
--> For being a drunkard & Smoker...




Modern Interpretion by Secularists/Liberals :

A hero to the Secularists and Turkish Nationalists... for not only destroying the old Caliphate, but for also wiping the state language of Arabic to a Roman alphabet Turkish based language.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Copied from wikipedia, with slight modifications
__________________________________________________________________

Dear brothers & Sisters should this man be a world renown Hero? Destroyed the 600 year old Caliphate? Or should he be known as one of the greastest traitors of all time... Hoping for your responses...


Last edited by on Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Topi

avatar

Posts : 79
Join date : 2007-12-31

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 pm

asalmu aliekum wa rahmatul allah wa barakatu

No one interested in this "nonperson"... I hope someone will come and realize that this person was a traitor , not just to the Turkish people, but also to all the muslims around the world...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
.



Posts : 30
Join date : 2008-01-02

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:06 pm

Assalamulaikum, I remember this guy...i had to learn about him in history...for some debate in Butler's class...
I would certainly call him a hero of his people!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
hellboy77

avatar

Posts : 16
Join date : 2008-01-02

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:13 pm

i agree with Romi Topi. It's not what you do that make you good or evil, but how you do it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Topi

avatar

Posts : 79
Join date : 2007-12-31

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:55 pm

Assalamulaikum,

I would just like to point out that this person was an extremely wicked person. The only good thing I think he did, was that he saved "predominantly Muslim Turkey" from falling to the Christian Greeks after World War 1. The Greeks were hoping to create a new "Byzantine Empire", hence exploiting Post World War 1 weak Turkey. Fortunately, Mr. Kemal defeated them in a war on the Eastern shores of Turkey.

However I ask you, did he do this out of Nationalism or to save the muslims of Anatolia?

If he did it to save the muslims, then perhaps there was some good in him. However after all he has done...do you really think this was his initiative?

Please give your responses.



Abdallah, I don't think so...for the old Ottoman Caliphate was officially the only "Caliphate" that was exising...even muslims in India supported the Ottoman Caliphate. A for Kemal...he might have won the Battle of Gallipoli, and prevented Greeks from capturing Turkey...look at what he has done.

Arabic used to be the official language of Turkey for 600 years. Now imagine the massive loss, people are no longer to read the Qu'ran with understanding.

Also Secularism is aganist Sharia law...so technically Secularism is unacceptable in a Muslim state.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Abdullah50



Posts : 14
Join date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:27 pm

I completely agree with you mujie but I still have to prove something here

Quote :
Dear brothers & Sisters should this man be a world renown Hero? Destroyed the 600 year old Caliphate? Or should he be known as one of the greastest traitors of all time... Hoping for your responses...

I do agree with you on this one


Quote :
No one interested in this "nonperson"... I hope someone will come and realize that this person was a traitor , not just to the Turkish people, but also to all the muslims around the world...

If he was a traitor, how did Turkey get economically advanced? I would have to disagree on some of this point because literally although he was a separatist he still accomplished much to develop the economy of Turkey and also modernized it. Without this modernization then basically turkey would have been like Iraq or many of the countries around the middle east. But I actually didn't accept the fact that he "Completely" changed Turkey into a whole new "European" Nation
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peace Within

avatar

Posts : 168
Join date : 2007-12-31
Age : 28

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:10 pm

Abdullah50 wrote:
I completely agree with you mujie but I still have to prove something here

Quote :
Dear brothers & Sisters should this man be a world renown Hero? Destroyed the 600 year old Caliphate? Or should he be known as one of the greastest traitors of all time... Hoping for your responses...

I do agree with you on this one


Quote :
No one interested in this "nonperson"... I hope someone will come and realize that this person was a traitor , not just to the Turkish people, but also to all the muslims around the world...

If he was a traitor, how did Turkey get economically advanced? I would have to disagree on some of this point because literally although he was a separatist he still accomplished much to develop the economy of Turkey and also modernized it. Without this modernization then basically turkey would have been like Iraq or many of the countries around the middle east. But I actually didn't accept the fact that he "Completely" changed Turkey into a whole new "European" Nation

Saalam 50,

Mustafa Kemal had his goods and bads, however, he's definitely not a hero in the eyes of the Turkish Muslims. If you've recently heard back from the MUN students who have come back from Turkey, they did not have Allah's name on walls or his words from the Quran, they had pictures of Mustafa Kemal and quotes by him. In Islam, that is called idolatary--they haven't called him a God, make no mistake, but they worship him as someone who had 'freed' them from an 'enclosure and fence of Islam'. What does Modernization exactly mean to you?

Peace Within
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Abdullah50



Posts : 14
Join date : 2008-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:20 pm

all i can tell you atm is that modernization is nothing compared to my faith in Allah. Basically I said the same as you just did but I just tried to mention something a little good about him ;P. But yeah as you said

Quote :
Mustafa Kemal had his goods and bads, however, he's definitely not a hero in the eyes of the Turkish Muslims

and i completely trust you in this point of view
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peace Within

avatar

Posts : 168
Join date : 2007-12-31
Age : 28

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:27 pm

Abdullah50 wrote:
all i can tell you atm is that modernization is nothing compared to my faith in Allah. Basically I said the same as you just did but I just tried to mention something a little good about him ;P. But yeah as you said

Quote :
Mustafa Kemal had his goods and bads, however, he's definitely not a hero in the eyes of the Turkish Muslims

and i completely trust you in this point of view

I will try my best to get you this documentary. Perhaps its on youtube--basically there was this episode in Turkish history, where Kemal brought thousands upon thousands of women into a stadium and abolished the hijab right there. The women threw off their hijabs, like you throw your gown up when you graduate. It's a very eerie--well lets just say it's something you and I would find disturbing.

Peace Within

P.S. I'll try finding a youtube link for you soon! Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Topi

avatar

Posts : 79
Join date : 2007-12-31

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:09 pm

Assalamulaykum

What suprises me the most, is that very few people actually know this guy. So I just thought for everyone's best interest, we all should know this evil man.

True, Abdullah50 he did make Turkey economically advanced, but at what cost?

Arabic, once the main language of Turkey, abolished within nine months. He could have just made Turkey as modern as Today's, but why abolish Arabic?

Why reintroduce alcohol into the country?

Why bring back Tobacco back into the Empire? The Ottoman Caliphate was the ONLY SUCCESSFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD TO MAKE TOBACCO/SHEESHA ILLEGAL within the empire.

Why bring all that "crap" ( I'm sorry but this time I really mean it...) back?
Why turn Hagia Sophia into a Museum. The Hagia Sophia was once a church, but it was then converted into a mosque. So, why then make it into a Museum. By the way, the reason why muslims converted the church, was to counter how the Spaniards took the famous Cordova Mosque during the Reconquista. The one that took nearly 200 years to build!


anyways... Allah Hafiz
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peace Within

avatar

Posts : 168
Join date : 2007-12-31
Age : 28

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:15 pm

Salaam Topi,

You should not call him an evil man, at least on this forum. He was not genuinely evil, and people would not agree with you, at least the non-Muslims. Be respectful. I admire Mustafa Kemal's bravery and outstanding affect he had on the Turkish people. We need leaders like Mustafa Kemal, but who know how to stick to their deen. Mustafa Kemal, perhaps, if we look at it with the idea of fate in mind--just maybe he set the basis for a future Islamic people, the strongest. We might be pointing fingers now, but imagine what Turkey could become. Turkey has a rubbish history of selfish Sultans, however, that was Turkey's downfall. Let's pray for someone to unite us all, inshallah.

Peace Within
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Topi

avatar

Posts : 79
Join date : 2007-12-31

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:26 pm

Assalamulaykum,


Well, we may have to take this argument to the Debate Forum. Nevertheless, there were good Sultans...

The best, and most famous one was Suleyman the Magnificent (As known in the West). While in the East he is known as the "Law giver." Due to his fairness to minority groups and advances, in literature, education, arts, etc.

However obviously there were odd practices within the Sultanate itself. For some reason to become the Caliph you had to be part of the royal family, hence it was hereditary. Obviously this is wrong, but anyways if there were more than one person who could access the throne (like if there were three brothers) the oldest became the Caliph, while the rest were put in the "Kafes" or in translation the "cages." So basically the rest of the younger brothers would under house arrest till it was his turn or the Caliph died. It was not pretty, in fact one of the sultans had to spend 54 years in a room. Obviously, this is totally unacceptable, but this was to prevent rebellions and secret assassinations by the younger brothers. However once again, this would not happen if the throne was not hereditary. So evidently this type of goverment was flawed but not to the extent that it couldn't be fixed by the people.

Yes, this goverment was haraam, but it was not like it was too late to fix it...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peace Within

avatar

Posts : 168
Join date : 2007-12-31
Age : 28

PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:17 pm

Disgusting...Spend 54 years in a room? Sometimes I feel people are right when they saw power destroys the feelings in humans.

Peace Within
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???   

Back to top Go down
 
Mustafa Kemal...Hero or Zero...???
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» James Connolly: A Working Class Hero
» A good night's rest for the hero and his troops
» E HERO Water control/nuke (HERO + Monarchs(?))
» Rainbow in the Dark: Tzolkin HERO-Neos
» Masked hero deck!!

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Faith of Freedom :: Politics :: Rest of the World's affect on/with Islam-
Jump to: